Sheep and Logic-Fail

26 July 2008 at 19:02 (Random Randomness, Sims 2) (, , , )

Constipation of the brain… and, er, diarrhoea of the mouth

(Apologies to Paden for nicking her line)

What super happy fun goodness in the TSR paysites ‘debate’ thread. This is the old thread where (in my sheepy days) T$R deleted my post because I C+P’d the EULA (or maybe it was the message from EA, I can’t remember). Anyhoo, the thread’s been resurrected of late, and is worth taking a look at.

For starters, this was the only reply to my message before it got censored. I know it’s on my Why I Left TSR page, but I just have to print-screen it and show you again, it’s so priceless!

I call that one Constipation of the Brain. Donation, my foot. Wake up!! You’re paying for Thoma$$’s exotic holidays and second house. Now here was a very eloquent message a few more posts down by moon-feather.

I understand that people who create custom content for the Sims do put a lot of time into and some of them are definitely special and talented people and I’m very happy that they choose to share their items. The thing is, according to EA’s EULA, they have no right to charge for these items. It isn’t an idiotic law either; EA made and own the Sims, no one else, without express agreement, should have a right to charge for their product.

If this weren’t an issue (and who knows, maybe one day EA will make a statement to the contrary), I wouldn’t mind pay-content much. I would personally still be rather against the idea, just because this is a game that a lot of children do play, and they can’t really pay for such content, but that is just my opinion and I can’t stop anyone else from doing that. I would probably still not buy any (or only little), but then I’d just say, “Darn” when I can’t get something and move on. Like Ayieta said, I do not feel it is my right to enjoy these people’s works, it is just, with how things are right now, people don’t have a right to charge for those works.

Personally, I haven’t bought any of EA’s stuff packs and only a few expansions that I really wanted. I don’t mind that EA charges for the stuff packs, that is their prerogative, and if they were only $5 or maybe $10, I’d go for it as I have the money. $20 just doesn’t seem like a worthwhile amount to me to pay for what I’d get (unless those stuff packs have a whole lot more items in them than they seem to me), so I don’t pay and I don’t mind. Paying $350 for a game (that was all EPs, with NL counted in the Deluxe Edition, and SPs), just seems silly to me, no matter how good a game and as a university student who only works part time, I just don’t have the cash either. To some people, that is worth it and I hope they have a lot of fun.

My boyfriend is a modder, not for the Sims, but for the Elder Scrolls games, and he has never nor will ever charge for a single one of them. This includes a very extensive mod in which he needs to make all the land from scratch, make many of his own meshes and animations for plants, animals, and buildings, design his own quests, do all the scripting, etc. He does this because it is his passion and he wants to share it with other people. He may never even finish this mod, because he is working entirely on his own. Many of the best modders in the community are already working on an even larger project known as “Tamriel Rebuilt,” that would be several times larger than the original games if it is ever finished. This, of course, almost certainly won’t happen, but they are almost done with at least one, if not two, of the nine areas. Again, may I stress, that this detailed, well made mod, which requires a ridiculous amount of work from many people is absolutely free (no offense, but this does take a lot more work than a few well-made room sets)? There are a number of people on the project who I do hope get jobs making stuff like this for games, because it is so good.

If my boyfriend or anyone else even tried to the community would be on them in a flash for trying to charge for other people’s work. To my knowledge, the Sims community is the only one that is so large that it manages to get away with violating a game’s EULA.

If modding for the Sims is really taking up so much of your time that you feel you need to be paid for it, that your passion for the game is not enough, that it is getting in the way of your real life and job, then, I don’t want to sound mean, but it is probably time to take a break, making less mods or none at all. It is a game and you should make content because it is fun and you love sharing your creations with people. You’ve had too much of a game if it starts feeling like a job.

I realize maintaining a website like TSR must cost A LOT of money, but with the massive amounts of downloads some subscription items get, I find it hard to imagine they get barely enough to make up for server costs every month. MTS2 also gets by fine on just asking for donations. If you want to encourage donations, just give donators special privileges like faster or more reliable servers, the ability to download items as sets rather than individually (a neat idea I saw on one site), or let them vote for the next Challenge theme or something. I am totally open to donating to sites I enjoy when I have the money, and I plan on doing this for a few Sims 2 sites very soon. This was actually when I noticed that the Wicked Nouk group managed to fill up their donation request for the next month’s server cost in a few days. (0.0)

I am also confused by some arguments here. At points people argue that modders deserve the money for their hard work, but others say it is server costs. ChickFlick in post #15 says (sorry, I realize this is a post from two years ago) that FA’s don’t get any money from the subscriptions. Which one is it? At least be honest about why you are charging.

All and all, I can’t stop TSR or anyone for charging for custom content, only EA can do that if they ever decide to. One thing I wish would be changed (and Thomas said this would be done in post #53 and this was from a year ago), is that you could chose to be only shown items whose meshes are free too. I do keep an eye out for the “Mesh is subscriber only” notice, but even I managed to miss this once with a recolor of Birgit’s Happy Chills bed. That is an annoyance and when I keep seeing items that I can’t really get unless I pay when I specifically set my search to free items only, I can’t help but feeling that is TSR’s way of getting people who otherwise chose not to pay, to become subscribers.

As for Tdyannd’s comment that it is really donating, I will try telling people looking for a 360 at my work that they only need to “donate” $350 to get one and enjoy being laughed at. If someone cannot get something without giving money, that is called paying. I’m not against paying for things, of course, provided the person has the right to charge for the item.

Sorry for the terribly long post with my rotten grammar, I’m always too wordy, but I felt like I had some important things to say.

Hear hear! But the best is yet to come. Steve Ban-em’s reply (emphases my own):

As this thread is going somewhat off the rails its time to close it I’m afraid.

Tom has already posted that we will add extra filters and help reduce the frustration for users on this issue. Now that’s its turning into a paysite debate, I’d like to say this (once again), before I click the big red button.

EA changed the EULA some 3 Expansion packs back to remove the reference of selling custom content for commercial use. This was done after many months of talks with EA Legal and Sims fansites. If anyone has a concern about the legality of selling Sims CC they need to approach EA Legal who will reply/take action or do whatever they choose to do. I encourage anyone with concerns to do so, and I wouldn’t be doing that if I thought we were doing anything wrong.

Feedback about the original issue is greatly received and will be used to make Version 7 even better.

Thread closed.


EA changed the EULA some 3 Expansion packs back to remove the reference of selling custom content for commercial use. Are you having a laugh?

Maybe we just hallucinated the inclusion of the word ‘noncommercial’ here?
FreeTime EULA

If anyone has a concern about the legality of selling Sims CC they need to approach EA Legal who will reply/take action or do whatever they choose to do. I encourage anyone with concerns to do so, and I wouldn’t be doing that if I thought we were doing anything wrong.

No, because you know people have been complaining for years and EA have always done feck-all!



  1. Anonymous said,

    Wow so you think by using excremental associated words to describe people’s own valid opinions that you’re better than them? Seems like you’re a bit of an excrement yourself…

    Silver’s Reply: Thanks, Anon. DOUBLE BROWNIE POINTS for not using the S-word! WINRAR is YOU!

  2. Booyaw said,

    what don’t they understand from *non-commercial* sigh…i have to say though– tsr’s bs makes for some good entertainment~!

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